CARS HOMES JOBS

Gazette polls



Should gay and lesbian couples receive the same legal benefits as married heterosexual couples?

Yes, including the right to marry 51% 401 votes
Yes, but they should not be allowed to marry 11% 89 votes
No 34% 264 votes
Not sure 2% 18 votes
Total Votes: 772

Note: This is not a scientific poll.

comments


May 31, 2008
5:04 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
coachmike ( coachmike ) says...

I think it is pathetic that the communities would allow such a relationship to progress in our land. This will show once again the wrong message to children , it is bad enough that kids joke about being "lez" friends and go around holding each other and pretending there married to each other. But then God will have his final say so and the sin this country reaps it will harvest the result of it. So when things go wrong in your life blame yourself and not God.

May 31, 2008
1:03 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
TimeGhost ( TimeGhost ) says...

To coachmike:
If it is up to God to punish them, then you should not be judgmental, and in fact, have nothing at all to say on the subject. You should have tolerance for others (isn't that one of the main messages of Christianity?), including those of us who aren't Christian, and don't believe in your book of mythology.

May 31, 2008
1:54 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
yuppers519 ( yuppers519 ) says...

Way To Go Gov Paterson. Lets worry about gay people and Cigarette taxes. Lets raise taxes. To hell with gas prices. Why don't you grant national grid there requested rate hike while you are at it. This is definitly the blind leading the blind. You've lost my vote.

May 31, 2008
6:30 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
VaFlagger ( VaFlagger ) says...

Marraige is a sacred pact ordained by God. It is done in a Church by a man of the cloth. Wedding Vows are given between 2 people of opposite sex as a promise to each other with God as witness.

It is no right of outsiders to force themselves into this forum and partake of this sacred ritual. Homosexual behaviour is a sin before God, an abomination, and has no place in His House nor among children.

Homosexuals in society may gain rights as society caves to pressures of the gay lobby, and with each passing generation homosexuality may seem more mainstream, with movies, tv, and public displays of men deep throat kissing other men, and 2 women teaching their young daughters that 2 mommies are the best thing since sliced bologna, meanwhile the slippage of western civilization into the abyss is growing larger and ever faster.

Rome went out like this.

May 31, 2008
6:54 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
enest ( enest ) says...

Love between two people is a beautiful thing.

May 31, 2008
7:40 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
agrandy ( agrandy ) says...

People who are concerned about the "sin" of gay marriage should put more of their efforts into the real sins of this country..such as poverty, racism, and war.

May 31, 2008
7:43 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
VaFlagger ( VaFlagger ) says...

Love is one thing, marraige is another. If you must be a homo, then do it together forever - unless you choose to seek God's forgiveness and repent - and have the weak govt grant you a civil union.

Keep God out of your seeking to justify your wicked behavior, and the Church from participating in your blasphemous ceremonies.

AS a taxpayer, I do not want my money going to 'couples' who have infected each other with AIDS, HIV, and the hikes in insurance rates of such risky and immoral acts. I also refuse to have my children taught on my dime that such perversion is 'normal' and we all should accept it like apple pie and baseball, and that I am supposed to be accepting of the poor confused boy who wants to put his arm around my son and try and kiss him.

He!! NO.

May 31, 2008
9:12 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
dan ( dan ) says...

Marriage (note the correct spelling) has nothing to do with this "god" character. Please don't confuse the government sanctioned marriage with the religious ceremony "matrimony". There is a reason our forefathers had the foresight to call for separation of church and state, and it's one of the doctrines that makes America so great. It's among the same doctrines that allow for freedom of speech, which allows the ignorant and afraid to spread their hate speech, such as those who would blindly associate AIDS and HIV with homosexuality. Or perhaps say they don't want their tax dollars going to couples they don't agree with. That makes as much sense as saying you don't want your tax dollars going to pave a road you don't ever plan to travel upon. I'm sure this is the same sort of person who 50 years ago would argue against the rights of blacks and whites to marry. Or 100 years ago, insist that women shouldn't have the right to vote. It's called progress. I for one, think it's about time we get over these non-issues, let all consenting adults marry who they please. We have so many more bigger, real problems on which to focus our time.

May 31, 2008
10:13 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
VoiceOfReason ( VoiceOfReason ) says...

No one is asking churches to recognize same-sex marriage. That should be left to each church to decide. What is being discussed is whether or not the State should recognize same-sex marriages, or in the case of CA, whether or not they should be performed. Let's keep the separation of church and state clear, okay?

For those who are worried about the sanctity of marriage, how about encouraging long-term marriages by outlawing divorce? Let two people that love and care for each other marry each other - but they better really mean it when they say " 'til death do us part."

May 31, 2008
11:15 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
Krista ( Krista ) says...

Apparently non of you have gone to school. Marriage was created for the division of the property of the male for his children. Because men always owned everthing they needed a way to divide his property when he passed on so marriage was created as a way to make this distribution of property at his death. And besides, whatever happened with separation of state and religion. Apparently that went out the window with the people who like to control everthing and no I am not gay. I feel if people love one another and they live as a family why shouldn't they be allowed to be cared for as we would. They have deep feelings of love for their partners and the people in their lives as much as you do. Think how you would feel if you where deprived of visitation in the hospital because you weren't family or someone swooped in and took all you worked for because you weren't married to the partner because you where of the same sex. Not to nice huh. Stop the control issues and stop hiding behind religion to hide your true prejudice personalities.

May 31, 2008
11:41 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
VaFlagger ( VaFlagger ) says...

Dan

My goodness! You are all over the road - Atheism, bigotry, denying women's vote,etc... Please calm down. Way too much caffiene.

Also sorry I didn't graduate a top spelling bee champ!

No, the 'seperation of church and state' thing was this: Congress shall pass no law establishing a religion, or stopping the free exersize thereof.

Look at the US Constitution. There is no such law of seperation. And the only reason it was mentioned by our forefathers was because they feared a similar control in America like they had with the Church of England.

Matrimony, yes, that seems to be the word used in the marraige service in the church. "To join these 2 in Holy Matrimony"

And the lame attempt at equating the ban 50 years ago on interracial couples to the homosexual agenda is crazy. Yes, AIDS does occur in drug users, but thru bodily fluids is #1. To get a govt sanctioned piece of paper only would exascerbate (?) the problem.

Then there is that issue you avoided, about creating confused youth. lots will be driven under pressure by 2 daddies and 2 mommies into sexual relationships that favors the homo agenda. If allowed to expand, gay marraige recognized by 50 states will create a whole new class of criminal - me. I will be locked up for publically stating gay marraige is wrong, a sin, an aboniation, and that my family will not tolerate such a vile social engineering agenda.

June 1, 2008
12:45 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
maria ( maria ) says...

Oh, yes, the issue of "confused youth"! Research shows that kids raised in homosexual families are no more likely to become homosexual than kids from traditional families. The only difference that was found is that kids from homosexual families are more tolerant and less hostile.
I must also say that I find the analogy with interracial marriages very appropriate. A lot of people still have a hard time accepting those - 50 years apparently is not enough...
Another issue that is often raised by opponents of gay marriage goes something like this: "Marriage is ultimately intended for procreation purposes and so homosexual couples offend the law of nature". Well, here is a question then: How about marriages between elderly people? Should they also be considered offensive? Come on!

June 1, 2008
2:36 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
dan ( dan ) says...

VaFlagger - you really don't need to be a "top spelling bee champ" to be able to spell the word "marriage". Even a kindergardener could see how I spelled it and then not make the same mistake when writing a reply. And oh, I don't drink coffee, so you can add that assumption to your list of misconceptions :-)

Other various points - AIDS also occurs in heterosexual couples, it's a HUMAN virus, not anything to do with homosexuality. The only confused youth comes from children being taught by the church or other religions that homosexuality is somehow wrong. No one teaches children to be gay. There is no homosexual agenda, that's something made up by fear-mongers. And you will not be locked up for denouncing gay marriage. That's freedom of speech. Just like if you stated "I don't like black people" or something else equally ridiculous, society as a whole will disagree with you, but you won't be locked up. And... "aboniation"? Do you mean "abomination"?

To add to Maria's well-put points, also if one member of a wed hetero couple is sterile, they can also not procreate.

June 1, 2008
5:43 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
coachmike ( coachmike ) says...

Time Ghost...Christianity is not a sit back and dont deal with sin..that is what Christ did and that is what those in the inspired word of God did also. They delt with sin to show the people that if they dont turn from it they will not enter the kingdom of heaven and be with God. The " judgemental" accusation is the newest excuse being used today to say, dont tell me im doing wrong..and God wont have to judge you, you will and all will judge yourselves before God .As for your accusation of the book of mythology, it is the word of God for those who have faith and that is the only way you can beleive in God and love God. Christians are showing there love in pointing out what "God says" not what mere men think. Marriage is only between men and women together because of loneliness, not dividing up of property..there are to many falacies concerning Gods word.

June 1, 2008
5:53 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
Ree ( Ree ) says...

Sure they should be allowed to marry!! Just look at the money divorce lawyers are going to make!
If god don't like it the lawers will!!!

June 1, 2008
8:19 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
enest ( enest ) says...

How would you all feel if you were genetecially predisposed to being gay -- yes, it is genetic -- and society shunned you around every corner?
This is an unthinkable way to treat and speak about people.
God loves everyone, and everyone in this world really needs to stop the hatred and get of their proverbial soap boxes.
As I read through these posts, I am shocked at the horrible things people are saying and how they are expressing hatred.
That is what is sinful.

June 1, 2008
3:45 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
bobbrindel ( bobbrindel ) says...

Hay Vaflagger and coachmike, there is no requirement for god to be part of a marriage. Marriages are performed by Mayors and Judges and many others. The state issues a license just as it does for hunting and fishing. If you want to exclude people from being married in your church you can but don't deny others the ability to marry and share a life together. If you want to live in a country that bases all its laws on religious beliefs then move to Iran, I am sure they will be as tolerant of your views as you are of others here. Our founding fathers, most of whom and Ben Franklin in particular were not strongly religious, insisted on the establishment clause in the constitution so that laws would not be passed with religious intent along with the government establishing a national religion or preventing religious practices.
Live your life the best you can and let others do the same if god makes the final judgment fine, let her do it and we will all have to be responsible for our own actions and statements.

June 2, 2008
1:04 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
Krista ( Krista ) says...

Bravo,I loved your remarks all of which are very true.

My comment to the others is who are you to judge anyone and who are you to push your religion on others. Why is religion even part of this. why does everything become a religious matter. These are peoples lives and non of you are anyones god. Why is our government strictly run by people who insist on pushing their religion on the rest of the world. I thought there where many religions in this country and if this is true, why are only the catholics deciding what we should and should not do. Explain that one. Who gave you control?

June 2, 2008
2:11 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

Lets be perfectly fair.

If the government begins to grant the legal privileges (note: not "rights" despite what some people may want to believe) to homosexual couples then I will immediatly apply for the same privileges for my roommates and myself. We share expenses, heck we even get worried if one of us doesn't come home when we said that we would. If marriage is nothing more than a legal arrangment then sex or even romantic feelings should have nothing to do with it.

Why even limit it to just couples? What about communes? Shouldn't the members of those groups recieve those same privileges as well? In fact, why do not all people, no matter what their relationship, who live together recieve these same privileges? Its only fair.

June 2, 2008
2:14 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
dan ( dan ) says...

So... you're saying you plan to live with your roommate until death do you part?

June 2, 2008
2:18 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

"isn't that one of the main messages of Christianity?"

Tolerence? From what I've researched about Christianity I've never seen that to be a teaching, let alone "one of the main messages."

In fact a quick search of bible.com shows no matches for "tolerance" in the bible at all and the only mention of "tolerate" is in the negative.(eg. Psalm 5:4 O God, you take no pleasure in wickedness;you cannot tolerate the sins of the wicked, Revelation 2:2 I know all the things you do. I have seen your hard work and your patient endurance. I know you don’t tolerate evil people. etc.)

June 2, 2008
2:23 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

"So... you're saying you plan to live with your roommate until death do you part?"

Sounds like part of a religious ceremony to me. Is that part of the legal agreement?

I don't see anything that states that:
http://www.health.state.ny.us/vital_reco...

Besides, if that is part of the binding legal document then divorces would be completely illegal.

June 2, 2008
2:24 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

enest,

"yes, it is genetic"

Site please.

June 2, 2008
2:27 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

Dan,

"let all consenting adults marry who they please"

Including multiple people whom they please?

June 2, 2008
2:41 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
dan ( dan ) says...

diesirae - everyone's definition of marriage is slightly different, but i think what most people would agree on, is that when someone finds the one person they want to spend the rest of their life with, more than anyone else, and commit to that... that's marriage. No matter the gender. The whole multiple people thing is only for the religious. And yes, marriage can be considered a legally binding contract, that's why you need a divorce lawyer if you plan to break that contract.

And for a few references to the fact homosexuality is genetic, here ya go-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21309724/
http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm

June 2, 2008
3:09 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
schdygirl ( schdygirl ) says...

1. If I speak with the languages of men and of angels, but don't have love, I have become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but don't have love, I am nothing. 3 If I dole out all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but don't have love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love is patient and is kind; love doesn't envy. Love doesn't brag, is not proud, 5 doesn't behave itself inappropriately, doesn't seek its own way, is not provoked, takes no account of evil; 6 doesn't rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.- 1 Corinthians 13
For those of you professing to use Christianity to support your reason for hate, SHAME ON YOU!
How about you worry about your own homes and your own families and your own sexuality (or lack there of) and let other people live according to how they feel is in their best interest. It is not your job to judge...you are exactly the type of people that Jesus was talking about and fighting against, you know the ones who thought they had all the answers and their truth was the only truth.
By your actions you are creating much more sin than homosexuals (not being judgmental and loving your neighbor is mentioned dozens of times while homosexuality is barely mentioned, and even when it was it was discussing rape, not consensual relationships). Why don’t you stop being sheep, do a little soul searching and maybe get some education. Spreading hate is one of the worst things you can do as a Christian. So maybe you should worry about your own judgment day, rather than those who are actually practicing Jesus’ words of love.

June 2, 2008
9:24 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

Dan,

"i think what most people would agree on, is that when someone finds the one person they want to spend the rest of their life with, more than anyone else, and commit to that... that's marriage."

I was under the impression you weren't interested in the beliefs of individuals, simply legal proceedings.

If marriage is nothing more than a legal arrangment please point out where in the contract it states "until death do you part." I am very interested as that seems to be more of a matter of religious ceremony.

Furthermore, so you do agree that members of communes and roomates and the like should be afforded the same legal privileges then? Providing they state a commitment (well at least for the individuals to say that for the time being.)

"The whole multiple people thing is only for the religious."

So then you do feel that on a purely legal basis simultaneous marriages among multiple people are ok?

"And for a few references to the fact homosexuality is genetic, here ya go-"

1- You may want to become familar with the old scientific addage "correlation does not equal causation"
2- Neither of those are objective scientific sources even by the furthest reaches of the imagination. One is simply a news article about a study that is not even been finished much less released yet, the other seems to be little more than a trumped up blog entry.

June 2, 2008
9:43 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

To clarify a strangly prevailant misnomer:

Krista and

"whatever happened with separation of state and religion"

Its a term that gets tossed around in political discussion but was never and is still not part of American governmental policy. Basically that's what happened.

Dan,

"separation of church and state, and it's one of the doctrines that makes America so great"

If it were "doctrine" I would expect it to show up somwhere in America's official governmental documents.

VoiceOfReason

"Let's keep the separation of church and state clear, okay?"

I agree. It is clearly not mentioned in any of America's governmental policies.

June 3, 2008
2:01 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
Nassau_County_Civic_Assoc ( Nassau_County_Civic_Assoc ) says...

The Governor's actions are disgraceful. He knows full well that he is usurping the legislature. The matter has not yet been fully adjudicated by the courts as there is conflicting decisions in the 4 appellate districts. The case Martinez v. Monroe County was under appeal to New York's top court, the Court of Appeals which dismissed the appeal on a technicality and sent the case back to the appeals court to decide on the issue of damages. Once this is complete, the appeal can be renewed. Furthermore, there are other similar cases making their way to the top court. The Governor's action was a political power grab which violates the separation of powers between the executive branch and the legislative branch. Why is he afraid of the people? If there is such strong support for homosexual marriage, put it to a referendum. Let the people decide.

The homosexual extremists lost before the Court of Appeals in 2006. It was clear that the court addressed this issue.

Specifically the court stated, "First, the Legislature could rationally decide that, for the welfare of children, it is more important to promote stability, and to avoid instability, in opposite-sex than in same-sex relationships.... The Legislature could [also] rationally believe that it is better, other things being equal, for children to grow up with both a mother and a father. Intuition and experience suggest that a child benefits from having before his or her eyes, every day, living models of what both a man and a woman are like."

"The idea that same-sex marriage is even possible is a relatively new one. Until a few decades ago, it was an accepted truth for almost everyone who ever lived, in any society, in which marriage existed, that there could be marriages only between participants of different sex. A court should not lightly conclude that everyone who held this belief was irrational, ignorant or bigoted. We do not so conclude."

www.nassaucivic.com

http://www.savemarriageny.org/

June 3, 2008
2:57 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
dan ( dan ) says...

diesirae - you're under the wrong impression a lot. Legal proceedings, especially involving marriage, is all about personal beliefs, though what's best for everyone as a whole. The legal reasonings behind marriage, is that society/neighborhoods/communities have improved when occupied by married couples. That is two individuals so in love with each other, they're willing to public state it and commit to loving each other "til death do them part". That's what marriage is. How you can possibly interpret that as equivalent to the relationship between roommates or communes implies that you've never been in a loving, intimate relationship yourself. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find your girl some day though.

There is far more scientific evidence to show that homosexuality is genetic, than otherwise.

I just googled "Church & State". First result - "Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other." So there you go, it's a doctrine.

Nassau_County_Civic_Assoc - Governor Paterson is just upholding the NYS law that says we as a state will recognize any legal marriage from a different state or country. It's the law. And oh, what is a "homosexual extremist," what an awful, useless, fabricated term. An old adage can easily be modified to summarize what should be everyone's opinion of gay marriage - "Don't like gay marriage, then don't have one." Easy, right?

June 3, 2008
1:18 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

Dan,

"That is two individuals so in love with each other, they're willing to public state it and commit to loving each other "til death do them part". That's what marriage is."

Again, if marriage is nothing more than a legal agreement please show me where NY law states that:
1- The individuals must be "in love"
2- They must commit to one another until death.

You have argued time and time again against people who assert that marriage is a union on a higher plane than simply a legal basis and yet here you are waffling on the same issue. So tell me then, is marriage nothing more than a legal arrangment or not? If so then "love" should have nothing to do with it.

"I just googled "Church & State". First result - "Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other."

Site. I can use google to find just about any definition for anything I want. What was the source of this quote? And please don't tell me it is from WIkipedia, you know as well as I do how non-objective that is as a source.

And again, if it is doctrinal then why does it not appear in any official American governmental documents?

June 3, 2008
6:22 p.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
dan ( dan ) says...

I don't understand why you think marriage is nothing more than a legal agreement. It's an absurd statement. That's like saying "rape is nothing more than an illegal act." As with a lot of legalities, you have to consider the opinions, emotions, and concerns of those involved. And yes, the law requires you to be a genuine couple to be wed. If the government suspects you're getting married simply for legal benefits, they send someone out to investigate. There have been dozens of movies where that law is an integral part of the plot.

And yes, the best article out there defining "church and state" is on Wikipedia. I'm sorry that it's 99.9% accuracy isn't good enough for you. And if you think it needs to be written on an official document, you don't understand the meaning of the word "doctrine".

June 4, 2008
2:08 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
diesirae ( diesirae ) says...

Dan,

"I don't understand why you think marriage is nothing more than a legal agreement."

When you stated, "Please don't confuse the government sanctioned marriage with the religious ceremony "matrimony" It seemed to suggest a distinction between what goes on in a legal basis and what goes on in a spiritual/emotional one.

What is the difference between believing that two people must be "in love" to be married and that two people must be different genders to be married. Both are based on the beliefs of the individual asserting the statment and as such both carry with them a subjective nature.

Discussion of "love" itself carries with it very spiritually overtoned messages, many faiths even equivicate the words "love" and "god." Why is it ok to demand the sanction of one but it is inapropriate to call for the sanction of the other. Is one any less a matter of personal belief?

In fact your ever trustworthy Wikipedia defines religion as,"A religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature" A statment like, "when someone finds the one person they want to spend the rest of their life with, more than anyone else, and commit to that... that's marriage" sounds an awful lot like a belief that is centered on a moral claim about reality and human nature, an awful lot like a religious claim.

Besides, I would gladly say that I love my roomates. I console them when they are sorrowing, I care for them when they are sick, I celebrate with them when they are joyful. I would gladly lay down my life for them. If I want to marry them is it required that I have to sexually desire them too?

"it's 99.9% accuracy"

Site please.

June 4, 2008
10:21 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
Keegan0604 ( Keegan0604 ) says...

no legal terms or religious ones... I believe that a child raised is a loving home of one parent, two parents, grandparents, same sex or not, is far more important a point. Children everyday are being raised in homes that are abusive and neglecting. I believe that a child requires love and understanding. Not to ever feel unwanted or be subjected to a parent or parents, same sex or not that argue and drink too much and have wrong priorities.
I have been in a commited relationship, and yes in love, with my partner for 9 years. We, with medical assistance, just had a baby a year ago. We both have good jobs and we own our own home. We are good upstanding members of society and for the comments that I have read above are HIV NEGATIVE. We, as well as both of our families, provide a very loving environment for our son that has both male and female influences. It again is my belief that our son, while he will have to over come challenges because he has 2 mommies, has the upper hand on a lot of todays youths. He has 2 constant and loving parents that put his needs above any others.
Do I think that I should be able to marry my partner? Yes I do. I should have the same opportunies as anyone else out there. My partner and I have discussed this matter at great lenght and decided that even if available we would not marry legally. We don't need any paper or "your" approval to be commited. Our families and each other is all we need.

Thank you for the opportunity to share.

June 4, 2008
10:49 a.m.

[ Suggest removal ]
Keegan0604 ( Keegan0604 ) says...

additionally, I would also like to say that both my partner and I wish our son grow to be heterosexual. We would never want him to have to deal with the same issues that we have. We have lost jobs, been denied medical care, etc. Acceptance is what we should be teaching!

 

columnists & blogs


Log into Dailygazette.com

Forgot Password?

Subscribe

Username:
Password: