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West Bank: continuing conquest

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You’ve heard about Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, but if you haven’t seen them, you haven’t seen them. They are clusters of houses set apart from their Palestinian surroundings by chain-link fences topped by coils of concertina wire. At the entrance is a barrier, and overlooking the houses, or overlooking the rocky approaches, is a guard tower of the kind you see at a military base, and indeed a military base is often ...

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comments

bsmaven
March 27, 2012
7:44 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

Wow. I am a big fan Carl and I really enjoyed your first two columns from Jerusalem, some of the funniest, most well written I have seen. But now, this lazy, unexamined slam piece?

You had me with the criticism of settlements, but your good guy, bad guy reasoning is simple minded. Gee I wonder why security is high when all those non-violent followers of Gandhi are living in the West Bank, open minded people who treasure equality for women, acceptamce of other nationalities and Jews. And for you history just seems to start in 1948, how ccnvenient for your beliefs. So in 1948 the Jews were the powerful state they are today and the arabs they fought were just simple unarmed peasants? The arabs didn't just have half jerusalem at one point they had the whole city, and I wonder how loving and peaceful and caring they were to the Jews who wanted to visit back when they contolled it? And they lost that half and the west bank because the Jews didn't like their peace and love rallies in 1967 and decided to take their olive trees in response? Yes, the Israeli state and more importantly the settlers, are deserving of much criticism but your simplistic, unexamined historical justification for your analysis is really disappointing. You "dimly understood" this history and "didn't give it a thought" before yor trip? I think not Carl, I think you had your mind made up and pretended to come to your conclusions after careful reflection. Come on you can do better than this.

Sparkys_Dad
March 27, 2012
8:58 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

Thank G-d for Mr. Stock.
And I thank the Gazette for allowing him to advance the truth in such an unbiased and humble way.

I do not agree with the previous 7:44am biased post condemning his storied account. Carl is reporting what he sees with his own eyes. And is that a crime?

Only if you are a zionist.
Be forewarned people. The smallest minority in this wonderful land of ours controls the vast majority. Just ask Dr. Paul. See how they silenced him.

Keep writing what you see, Carl Stock.
Your opening a door and letting a tad bit of light, shine through -- not a lot but just enough to perhaps give an brutally oppressed people hope and a lazy, complacent lot like us pause. Maybe not.

Some will label this post to be anti-semitist. But we are all Semites. What this comment is dear friends is anti-bullying.

Some of us were fated to be born on the wrong side of the fence.

bsmaven
March 27, 2012
9:57 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

"Be forewarned people. The smallest minority in this wonderful land of ours controls the vast majority."

You are talking about Sufis right? No you couldn't be anti-jewish with a statement like that. By the way we just had a meeting at the synago... I mean bank, to raise the price of oil and have your house foreclosed on and Passover is coming up so keep your kids inside.

I guess you believe you are part of the "vast majority"? And the "vast majority" is so weak minded as to be controlled by less than one half of one percent of the people? Well who wants that vast majority in charge then.

steveg
March 27, 2012
10:18 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

I agree fully with Sparkys_Dad and Carl. The settlements are an affront to human dignity and do more to thwart peace in the Middle East than any other single factor—nothing contributes more to arousing terrorist feeling, the fundamentalist mullahs and Al-Qaida inner circle would be impotent without it. You have to use your imagination to understand this. How would you feel if it were happening to you? Yes, it's a complex situation with huge mistakes on both sides (I should say "all sides"—the major world powers powers were heavily involved from the first). But go there and make the attempt to see it through Palestinian eyes, as Carl Strock has, and see if you can still justify the settlements, and worse the tactics used to maintain them, to your own conscience.

Sparkys_Dad
March 27, 2012
10:49 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

Wonderful comment at 9:57 et alia 10:18.
Maybe we are all on the same page after all.

BSMaven-- you speak of the Sufis as in the Dervish, yes?
You will appreciate these Ambrosia lyrics from college days gone by:

"Oh a sleeping drunkard
Up in Central Park
Or the lion hunter In the jungle dark
Or the Chinese dentist
Or the British Queen

They all fit together In the same machine

Nice, nice, very nice

Nice, nice, very nice

So many people in the same device

Oh a whirling dervish
And a dancing bear

Or a Ginger Rogers and a Fred Astaire
Or a teenage rocker
Or the girls in France

Yes, we all are partners in this cosmic dance.

Nice, nice, very nice

Nice, nice, very nice

So many people in the same device."

To quote soap-maker Emmanuel Bronner:
"We are all one.
Whatever unites mankind is better than whatever divides us.
We're All-One or none."

Just food for thought.

hodgkinst
March 27, 2012
1:39 p.m.

[ Flag Post ]

One State with no walls and equal rights for all is the only way that place can become holy again.

wmarincic
March 27, 2012
3:16 p.m.

[ Flag Post ]

I wonder why it is only the Christians who stand with the Jews while their own people would sell them out. Obviously sparkies_dad is a Jew himself as he will write God as G-d. The Jewish people were in Israel long before the Palestine people who have always been nomads with no land of their own until they decided they wanted Israel's land.

gazettereader
March 27, 2012
3:30 p.m.

[ Flag Post ]

wmarincic- so you're saying if native americans came to your house and told you to leave because they lived here long before your people did, you would acknowledge that they are correct and just leave?

I'm not taking any side with complex/sensitive palestine/israel argument. Just saying that "one's ancestors were there first" is not an argument with any merit... unless you believe it enough that you would gladly move out.

bsmaven
March 27, 2012
4:09 p.m.

[ Flag Post ]

Steve G do you really believe that fundamentalists only get worked up over Israeli settlements? You think if the settlements were gone Taliban girls would go to school, honor killings would stop, books wouldn't be burned, etc. etc.? If a republican asks for a ban on contraception everyone here marches, but if a middle eastern fundamentalist kills a woman not wearing a veil they blame it on Israeli settlements? Settlements are wrong as I said in my first post but where would you rather raise your family, in Tel Aviv or Saudi Arabia or Tehran? Its just a double standard where we expect more from Westernized people and excuse the behavior of others. Actually I agree with Sparky now, we are all one which means Israelis are no worse than their neighbors, and no better.

Woodrow
March 28, 2012
10:14 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

How transparently biased Mr. Strock showed himself in this column. He asked the PM's press adviser a question. If he talked to any Israeli Jews, he didn't say. But he relied on his Palestinian guide for how he should look at the matter.
Well, at least his bias was easy to see; Carl wasn't trying to fool us into thinking he looked objectively at the issues.

pbd
March 28, 2012
11:54 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

bsmaven alludes to the application of a "double standard". Want to talk seriously about a double standard? What is going on in the West Bank has gone on for 45 years. Jimmy Carter has it right: he described the situation as "apartheid". Where else in the world would the US unwaveringly support (and underwrite!) such an oppressive regime for so long? Where? And more importantly, WHY?

bsmaven
March 28, 2012
1:53 p.m.

[ Flag Post ]

pbd, He likened it to apartheid but that would mean all palestinians were subject to the rules of the west bank but that is not true for palestinians who are israeli citizens. It is not apartheid but martial law. You may argue it a difference in name only, I believe Israel's policy and treatment of palestinians on the west bank is wrong and unfair, but Israel hardly compares to South Africa under apartheid. There are real risks of death to Israelis from people on the west bank, so there is some security basis, although that doesn't make Israeli policy there right. As far as your comment that how does US support oppressive regimes or policies, LOL you need to learn some history and foreign affairs my friend. Do you buy products and indirectly support the government of china? Ask the minority tibetans and others how they feel about that oppressive regime? You buy petroleum products originating in Saudi Arabia? Ask minorities such as Shia muslims how they like that oppressive regime? No only Israel is the monster nation worse than Syria? Burma? Tell me where. Do you even have an idea what Israel as a nation is like, the open democracy, protests in favor of west bank citizens, etc.? Tell me another nation in the middle east even close to Israel in freedom of press, rights for women,etc. etc.

Sparkys_Dad
March 29, 2012
11:25 p.m.

[ Flag Post ]

All of you -- check this out:

http://www.afmda.org/

Thanks for your support.
:-)

***

carosini
April 1, 2012
8:47 a.m.

[ Flag Post ]

How can you go on vacation and not say something nice about your stay. Put the keyboard down and enjoy life and give your wife a break.

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